PakMediNet Discussion Forum : Surgery : MRCS Facts and Fiction???
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MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Can any body tell us what is benefit of appearing in MRCS these days. Even after passing this exam one is unable to pursue higher studies anywhere in UK. It doesn't seem to enjoy the same importance as MRCP does. If these two have any equivalence? I really doubt !!!.
It is not a degree or diploma in itself. This seems to be just a foundation or entry exam into higher surgical training system which is paradoxically denied to us. In this context, one may be subconsciously impressed with someone who has passed this exam but other wise it is by no means at par with any " degree" local or international. Except enriching royal colleges and may be earning couple of thousand extra possible rayals in fatuous arab states(these chances are also getting slim due to fiercer competetion at such places), Are there really any tangible benefits of appearing in this exam? Why dont we abandon it as sign of protest against their stated policy of disabling us to get higher training or education or acquiring jobs there.They have literally reduced us to third class citizens which although has always been part of their attitude but was never so brazenly reflected before. Even if they don't register this as protest , they must not be having any economic benefits from us howsoever trivial these are.....Remember they are not transferring us any skill or knowledge and denying us every opportunity thereof. This is preposterous that without giving us any inlet in so called world of wisdom, they want to test us, in return for heavy charges. After fulfilling their expectations , they just shut all doors which may lead to better future and to the possiblity of returning to your country as more learned and skillful person, in a way denying any chances for better health to third world people.This may look like far fetched but still it does happen in the end. Most never come back but few do come back and they do help their country mates become better scientists overall. In a sense this can be counted as one of major reasons for rapidly falling education standards especially in health sector. This decline is unprecedented and unchecked.
Please give your input and if any of above information is wrong , please correct for benefits of those who are on verge of wasting their hard earned money to this english waste bin.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 15-05-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
To set record little straighter, MRCS is a diploma and earned as prerequiste to enter higher surgical training. This is equivalent to our local MCPS or intermediate module examination. This also shares the same status as MRCP or MRCOG although latter are prestiged more due to historical factors rather then actual differences in worth. Procedure for acquiring each definitely do vary.
Please correct me if i am wrong. I sorted out all this information to, let people know what is what and in good spirit. EVen after reviewing my account regarding the basic essence of this exam or diploma, I couldn't change my stance so all given in above post remains true for practical purposes to the best of my knowledge.
[Edited by drfarhan on 30-05-2009 at 03:47 PM GMT]
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 30-05-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Well MRCS is equal to old FRCS entrance exam which most of Pakistani surgoens have in Pakistan. High percentage of pakistani surgeons DONT have FRCS exit and CCST. They did FRCS entrance exam and went back.(MRCS replaced FRCS entrance exam to gain entry to higher surgical training). Hence their FRCS is at same level as MRCS. Its just because medicine in Pakistan is monopoly and fake FRCS consultants dont wnat to accept young bright doctors with MRCS to come and practice next them hence they call it diploma.
Previously FCPS doctors were allowed to sit in FRCS entrance exam viva (now MRCS exam). After FRCS entrance (now MRCS) you compete for higher surgical training which is extremely competitive, at the end of which you take FRCS exit exam and than you are awarded with certificate of completion of surgical training.
[Edited by masakhtar on 11-06-2009 at 01:46 AM GMT]
[Edited by masakhtar on 11-06-2009 at 01:47 AM GMT]
Posted by: masakhtarPosts: 5 :: 11-06-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
I hope this is clear. No one is asking overseas doctors to take MRCS. They take it by their own choice.
Its not a diploma it is registrar entry level exam.
Cant stress more that MRCS and FRCS entrance exam is same. Surgeons in Pakistan have FRCS entrance but they only write it as FRCS as they didn't get entrance in registrar training. Most of surgeons have only done clinical attachments and to be fair going through CV of Pakistani professor surgeons they have only done clinical attachments even in those specialities which are not even related to surgery. Why doctors would leave UK if they gain entry to registrar level training. Common sense isn't it.
Posted by: masakhtarPosts: 5 :: 11-06-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Thank you Mr Ahsan for enlightening us about past and present of this rather dubious exam.
If this is not even diploma then at least by pakistani standards,its worth is belittled even further. As diploma it could have been solid land mark in lives of those who are aspiring surgeons but as just entrance exam, its entity is ever elusive. It gives noone any grounds to stand on except entering in higher surgical training which is impossible to get in now...
This is what britishers have to say about it...
As a College, we offer the Intercollegiate MRCS Examination to overseas doctors as a benchmark for their own expertise as surgeons, not as part of any formal agreement with a non-UK country for entry to specialist training.
Revised visa regulations that have come into force mean that any non-UK doctor who wishes to apply for training in the UK may only be accepted for a post if there is no UK or European Union doctor who can fill it. This has meant, in effect, that it is now nearly impossible for overseas doctors to gain training posts in the UK.
This is rather ironical that you have passed an enterance exam spending many hundred of thousands and have not managed to enter wherein it was intended to lead you.
I agree with you about champs in past but then at least they had quite a fair chance to get into higher training even if after much competition and earn few hundred pounds through those notorious "locums" but now even this chapter seems to have closed for forseeable future.
No body can be forced to take any exam or made to follow any particular track in this day and age.Still and all ppl do get tempted or misguided into wrong directions.Besides you'll agree that decisions should be well informed ones. Starting this thread is just part of this effort.All must know that exam which they are shaking hell and heaven to appear in is nothing but an enterance to Now NOWHERE.
I doubt if those old days FRCS have any problem with this new breed of MRCS because as i said due to historical reasons and not because of FACTS which you mentioned, MRCS is given no or very little weightage if any at all, even in pakistan spare those Arabs for whom any thing from west is literally worshipped(sic)..
In the end I am not challenging Uk policy makers about wisdom of their decisions but for poor pakistanis this is improtant to know where they are spending or should spend their money. Having known about this exam or for that matter any exam, if they still want to embark on their planned adventures, i just wish them Godspeed.
I am again grateful for insight you provided us into basic mechanism of this exam. I'll appreciate if other ppl also come forward and put their two cents in..all in good spirit.
[Edited by drfarhan on 12-06-2009 at 02:16 PM GMT]
[Edited by drfarhan on 12-06-2009 at 02:20 PM GMT]
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 12-06-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Have you done MRCS, if yes you can get job in U.K. or atleast locum now a days believe it or not.
I am doing Neurosurgery but due to personal reasons I am switching to family medicine with interest in emergency medicine.
If you have done MRCS than do let me know can help you with the job atleast I can try.
regards
Ahsan
Posted by: masakhtarPosts: 5 :: 12-06-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Thank you very much for your offer Ahsan... I am really impressed.
I am not MRCS how ever as you must have seen , I passed my FCPS some time ago in surgery. Its six years since now.
I really feel a bit guilty if i sounded to be spelling out my own ambitions or frustrations through this thread but actually I never meant to do that. Being in this field and hammering my own nerves while sorting out any reasonable plan for future which could suit my pocket, i did all this brainstorming on various exams. And MRCS naturally received most from me than usual . EVerytime i intended to take up this task since it was supposed to be next inevitable "stop" in my career as FRCS once used to be for all legends of past, I could not find it real attractive to invest so much time and money as again once with different appellation, it was worth all the effort...
I have seen many ppl around me going after it and having cleared it in the end one way or other but all this while it failed to "provoke" me although as a matter of fact i never had any alternative to this exam...
I initiated this debate on pakmedinet forum to have a closer look at rationale which lies behind decisions to go about such adventures and to outsmart those claims and my own temptations if possible. This was an effort to dig out reality and to project it to those concerned studded with bald truth and nothing else....
I was and I am always more than willing to be convinced on presentation of tiniest evidence which could potentially generate optimism but which should be based on evident reality.
Your reply is first glimmer of hope in this context and I do welcome it whole heartedly. I really wonder if pakistanis could organize a platform in Uk to help and guide their juniors through their careers just like KEMKANA OR APNA in USA. It can provide us an institutional foundation for future to keep so many fertile minds from going astray....I strongly hope that many fresh postgrads will be looking at your reply as very sign of change(if i dare call it so!) from an infertile land thus far...
At the same time, isn't it so lamentable that there are so few amongst our ranks who could tell us that there is or can be silver lining behind dark clouds.
Once again I am thankful for your offer...
Very Kind regards
[Edited by drfarhan on 19-06-2009 at 05:58 AM GMT]
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 13-06-2009 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
hi every1..i m new to this forum..i just completed my housejob and now im interested in doing MRCS n FRCS..so i want to knw that any1 of u hav any idea tat is there training job for mrcs n frcs available within UK or scotland
?ill be very thankkful to u if any1 of u kindly guide me ..
Posted by: dr.navPosts: 2 :: 25-05-2010 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Salam all!
i have just completed my housejob n as obvious i'm planning on taking the MRCS exam. u 2 ppl look much informed about it so i'll be really grateful if any of u cud tell me how it works, what to study, how to prep, whatelse to do, what not 2 do, future after the exam n all....
kindly reply
regards
Dr. Qurrat Al Ain
Posted by: annie_tariPosts: 4 :: 07-06-2010 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Salam all!
i have just completed my housejob n as obvious i'm planning on taking the MRCS exam. u 2 ppl look much informed about it so i'll be really grateful if any of u cud tell me how it works, what to study, how to prep, whatelse to do, what not 2 do, future after the exam n all....
kindly reply
regards
Dr. Qurrat Al Ain
Posted by: annie_tariPosts: 4 :: 07-06-2010 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Well, I thought that some more informed person should address your query as my knowledge has mostly come through grapevine or based on personal observation at best.
Since nobody has come forward as yet, so let me take up your question although authenticity of my reply may need further validation.
MRCS 1 and 2 , better attempted together.
Skim through core and systemic modules by catherine parchment smith and applied basic sciences by Andrew raftery along with past test series MCQs related to both clinical and basic subjects, easily available on any of reputed book stores on demand.
Even for MRCS 3, you'll need to revise the same books primarily, that is, both modules and raftery. you may add couple of books to this list while preparing for part 3 but it may be premature to know about them at this stage.
As to its future
1. In pakistan ,no edge except that you may be given a registrar or registrar like status at some places but not as a rule however.
2. In UAE and KSA, definitely , you'll be preferred and given handsome salary compared to your those colleagues who have been content with just doing FCPS. Doing both ,however, can reinforce your status even further.
3. In UK, you may be getting a job as SHO or registrar but not the one which can assure you a career. These will be based at non teaching hospitals. At present ,this is highly unlikely to get a residency in UK system for an IMG.
So moral remains that MRCS is not such a promising option but still better than nothing.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 14-06-2010 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
hi can we appear in MRCS A from pakistan.if yes please give me the details on how to apply
Posted by: eden2029Posts: 2 :: 08-01-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???yes, i think you can... Please contact website of any of Royal colleges for details under "examinations" section.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 12-01-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
hi friend/friends,
I am new to this forum.Its a great honour to interect with you people of great potentials.
I have done my FCPS in ENT in 2003.I am in a govt job with a meager oportunity of private practice.
I have passed IELTS with 7 band score overall as well as in each module.Should I go for MRCS-what are my chances if I pass it? OR should I appear in PLAB exam.
Please friends help me in making a decision.I will be highly thankful.
Posted by: zafarullahPosts: 2 :: 05-03-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
These days, chances are bright in Uk for securing jobs both staff grade and registrarship. So not a bad idea to go for the hunt with MRCS...However there will be a "limit" to your career growth after some time..But i think all is well as long as you are managing to squeeze out some reasonable amount of money for yourself.
Plab or Tras can give you added security in terms of getting any job whatsoever within medical field ,out of your area of specialization..
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 25-03-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
I have recently passed FRCS ophthalmology.
Can any one help me to secure a post in UK?
My e mail :drrejithrag@yahoo.co.in
[Edited by drrejithra on 23-06-2011 at 05:22 PM GMT]
Posted by: drrejithraPosts: 2 :: 23-06-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Respected Sir
I am Curently a Medical student.
i am confused abt my future..actuly i wana go in surgery...i was told tht its nearly imposible to get residency in surgery in usa.
kindy guide me wht should be my aproach...some people ...i mean should i look forward to fcps or somthing else...i mean going abroad to uk etc for surgery..??
Posted by: aliasad12Posts: 2 :: 28-08-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???hi im new to this forum.i was searching for MRCS on google that let me see this discussion...iv done my housejob and already cleared PLAB 1, and going to UK for PLAB 2...but i very strongly want to persue surgery as my career(for this purpose im givin FCPS part 1 in surgery but anyhow iv to go to UK)...somebody told me that if i clear MRCS part 1 here in pakistan...it will improve my chances of gettin into surgery training...i need some guidance in this regard...please help me out...thanks
Posted by: dradeelaPosts: 2 :: 13-10-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
many thanks drfarhan...just want to ask ,why don't you go for FRCS?have just passed my graduation,thinking to go for it,i will b thankful if you or any one can share any piece of knowledge regarding FRCS..
RREGARDS
Posted by: saanaPosts: 2 :: 28-10-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@ ali asad.
I am extremely sorry for this belated reply....
In my view........if you are so passionate about surgery, you should secure FCPS (surgery) primarily and pursue MRCS on sidelines. FCPS will ensure you good brush with all kind of surgery depending on your supervisors and place of training and MRCS will help you get some good amount of money and recognition in international community, in other words an opportunity to move beyond borders.
In USA , situation is definitely bleak to get into surgery for an IMG... Process is very long drawn and unpredictable...Lots of research , LORs , may promise you a place there.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 14-11-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@ adeela
you are already going well.....FCPS surgery is essential for you to actually become a practising surgeon......Plab 1 and 2 are going to ensure a definite entrance into British system whatsoever from scratch which is what counts there to get into any residency programme if you have one at all.....and MRCS is going to help you set sails for surgery....Having done foundation years following plab and prior to MRCS however, is going to brighten your chances for becoming a surgeon....but still the course will remain unpredictable hence route to FCPS is inescapable.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 14-11-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@ sanna
your aims are little obscure.....what field of surgery you are eyeing on ? In general surgery , FRCS is obsolete.....This is no more conducted...MRCS comprising two parts A and B is conducted in its stead, which is essentially a diploma and factually their entrance exam into higher and actual surgical training....you have to compete for residency slot after passing this exam and will be very fortunate to get one........In present scenario, this is almost impossible for an IMG to get one as you rank third following UK and EU nationals in their priority order and are bracketed with rest of the world while being short listed.... After almost five years of residency, in your chosen discipline, you have to get through an exit exam which is referred to as FRCS and then and only then you are declared qualified and eligible enough to practise independently as a consultant on British isles.....
Rest is already detailed in above posts.
[Edited by drfarhan on 14-11-2011 at 01:45 PM GMT]
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 14-11-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@dr farhan
you are giving quite reasonable replies....
Posted by: SohaibkhanPosts: 2 :: 20-12-2011 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
hello everyone..
i have been going through this thread and have found it really informative. I want to get some information. I have done graduation in 2009 and have recently cleared both parts of plab.I am now applying for registration in GMC UK. I intend to do FRCP in medicine.Could you please help me out whether i can residency in medicine in UK..i mean how much is the possibility of this nowadays.And furthermore, if i first do FCPS in medicine first then would it be of any help..i mean can i give FRCP exit exam on its basis..and at what place does MRCP stand in this regard.
Posted by: drashharPosts: 3 :: 28-03-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
salam.
i have just cleared mbbs and i have a serious interest in urology. can anyone help me out with what should i do and where should i start from?
Posted by: drxakiaPosts: 2 :: 30-03-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@ ashhar
Status of residency for foreign graduates is almost uniform across the UK and has already been thrashed out in above posts....exceptions ,however, may and do exist.. So keep looking for the silver lining and give it your best shot.
As per GMC guidelines, FCPS medicine is allowed to skip MRCP 1 and straight away sit part 2 provided he applies inside 3 years after qualifying.. Along with physicians, paediatricians and anaesthetist can also enjoy the same drive way.......But please note, these areas do not interest me directly, so my knowledge about them is "general" and may be little outdated...Go to their website directly and/or email them your inquiries before drawing out your plans.
FRCP is not a degree.....this is an elected position conferred upon the members( MRCPs) by the royal colleges in return and acknowledgement of their services in academics after a prescribed or stipulated period of time.... there doesn't have to be any exit exam therefore. This is unlike FRCS , but on same footings with FRCOG...So don't get too much impressed by those who boast it....:-)... Please feel free to verify all this information through independent and more learned resources.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 01-04-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
@ xakia
You should contact College of physicians and surgeons for knowing the precise pathway and prerequisites which could lead you to FCPS urology in the end...
FCPS part 1 in surgery in General will probably be your kick off....Rest , wish you Godspeed.
Posted by: drfarhanPosts: 93 :: 01-04-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
I'm happy to become a member of this forum.
It's rather personal but i'll surely want to put up my case here, because with the reply many of us who are sharing the same problem will get some guidance and benefit.
I've freshly completed my House job with all enthusiasm and i've opted to appear in FCPS part-1 for which i got eligible as there were still 2 months remaining for the exam.So,i'm a fresh candidate.
The problem that i face now is that, i'm getting engaged to a british national doctor next year and will marry her probably in 2 or 3 years time.
Through out my career i was an ardent worker.My country comes first for me.But the condition has changed for me allover in a matter of just couple of months as my expected wife is not willing to come over here in Pakistan as expected.
Cutting it short, what's the best test that suits me.Is it the PLAB or the MRCS?
I'm myself willing to take the FCPS first and get the training here in Pakistan with in the time interval engagement to marriage(if i get cleared quickly for training).
The last thing i want is to waste my time.Some of my seniors told me to just do the PLAB and not care about anything else.But i'm still really confused about my future plans.
I hope to get some guidance and counselling from the very forum.Keep up the good work.
Regards.
[Edited by Saadi. on 04-05-2012 at 01:16 AM GMT]
[Edited by Saadi. on 04-05-2012 at 01:17 AM GMT]
Posted by: Saadi.Posts: 3 :: 04-05-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???@Saadi, I think in your circumstances you should go for PLAB path. You have done house job it is enough. Pass PLAB and start your career in United Kingdom. As a husband of a British national you have fair chances in UK training system from FY1/FY2 level.
Posted by: dradeelPosts: 5 :: 05-05-2012 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: MRCS Facts and Fiction???
Thank you dradeel....
Posted by: Saadi.Posts: 3 :: 09-05-2012 :: | Reply to this Message